I think you forget .... inspections ARE made. We are dealing with professional people here .... and the contracted inspections teams are professional too.
Importing with phyto certificate
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For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation, exhibition & science of cacti & other succulents only.
Please respect all forum members opinions and if you can't make a civil reply, don't reply!
- el48tel
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
Endeavouring to grow Aylostera, Echinocereus, Echinopsis, Gymnocalycium, Matucana, Rebutia, and Sulcorebutia. Fallen out of love with Lithops and aggravated by Aeoniums.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
Re: Importing with phyto certificate
I've had phytos in the past where the inspector has attended a nursery but hadn't actually gone in the greenhouse where the plants were waiting to be inspected. There are times where an inspector knows the quality of the nursery and doesn't bother to check the plants. This is not in the UK.
Stuart
Stuart
- el48tel
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
Exactly my point. These guys know their patch and the inherent risks. They know their prey too.Stuart wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:02 am I've had phytos in the past where the inspector has attended a nursery but hadn't actually gone in the greenhouse where the plants were waiting to be inspected. There are times where an inspector knows the quality of the nursery and doesn't bother to check the plants. This is not in the UK.
Stuart
Endeavouring to grow Aylostera, Echinocereus, Echinopsis, Gymnocalycium, Matucana, Rebutia, and Sulcorebutia. Fallen out of love with Lithops and aggravated by Aeoniums.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
- ralphrmartin
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
The difficulties of importing do indicate that a much beefed up BCSS seed list would be very useful. But that depends of course on sufficient volunteers to count and packet wholesale seed, as well as getting all the permits etc.
Ralph Martin
https://www.rrm.me.uk/Cacti/cacti.html
Members visiting the Llyn Peninsula are welcome to visit my collection.
Swaps and sales at https://www.rrm.me.uk/Cacti/forsale.php
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https://www.rrm.me.uk/Cacti/cacti.html
Members visiting the Llyn Peninsula are welcome to visit my collection.
Swaps and sales at https://www.rrm.me.uk/Cacti/forsale.php
My Field Number Database is at https://www.fieldnos.bcss.org.uk
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
The number of non-plant-related packages imported into the UK will be very, very, very, very, very much higher than ones with seeds and/or plants.
I suspect that the inspection teams are actually way under-staffed, so they get through whatever they can in any one shift, and the rest go through without any kind of inspection. I reckon that one in three of my imported packages gets inspected and result in a VAT/duty/admin' fee bill to me.
I have imported plants twice with a phyto - one was opened, one was not. Both were "large", far larger than a large Jiffy bag.
So far as I understand, phyto inspection at a sender's establishment includes the establishment in general as much as anything being shipped - one SA nursery says as much in their T&Cs. And yes, one phyto covers a shipment from any single supplier, no matter how large.
Forget about phyto' etc. for edible plants (fruit and veg'), commercial seeds, animal feed grains and the like. They are covered under seperate regulations.
It is NOT difficult to import anything. It is EASY, very easy in fact. It can be time-consuming and it is certainly more expensive than it has traditionally been. The only exception is where you want to buy something from abroad, from someone who cannot or will not provide what is legally required, in which case, you will need to shop elsewhere (or take the risk).
In many cases foreign companies will no longer ship goods internationally/outside of the EU, as appropriate, as much of the world, including the US, has adopted the same VAT strategy as has the UK. For instance, if you are a Belgian selling motor-cycle spares commercially, to sell anything to a UK citizen, you have to register with UK HMRC, open an "account", keep accounts for £ sales, charge UK VAT on sales to the UK, pay that VAT to UK HMRC and have your books open for UK HMRC to inspect. Who'd bother unless he was selling £1000's-worth of stuff to the UK every week? If the Belgian did not go along with this, assuming a parcel was found, the parcel would be returned.
This is why some sales sites, such as Discogs, for instance, will show lots of greyed-out entries as they will not ship to the UK, assuming you are viewing from the UK. If they will, costs have frequently gone stratospheric compared to 2 years ago.
At least a phyto is simple enough!!
I suspect that the inspection teams are actually way under-staffed, so they get through whatever they can in any one shift, and the rest go through without any kind of inspection. I reckon that one in three of my imported packages gets inspected and result in a VAT/duty/admin' fee bill to me.
I have imported plants twice with a phyto - one was opened, one was not. Both were "large", far larger than a large Jiffy bag.
So far as I understand, phyto inspection at a sender's establishment includes the establishment in general as much as anything being shipped - one SA nursery says as much in their T&Cs. And yes, one phyto covers a shipment from any single supplier, no matter how large.
Forget about phyto' etc. for edible plants (fruit and veg'), commercial seeds, animal feed grains and the like. They are covered under seperate regulations.
It is NOT difficult to import anything. It is EASY, very easy in fact. It can be time-consuming and it is certainly more expensive than it has traditionally been. The only exception is where you want to buy something from abroad, from someone who cannot or will not provide what is legally required, in which case, you will need to shop elsewhere (or take the risk).
In many cases foreign companies will no longer ship goods internationally/outside of the EU, as appropriate, as much of the world, including the US, has adopted the same VAT strategy as has the UK. For instance, if you are a Belgian selling motor-cycle spares commercially, to sell anything to a UK citizen, you have to register with UK HMRC, open an "account", keep accounts for £ sales, charge UK VAT on sales to the UK, pay that VAT to UK HMRC and have your books open for UK HMRC to inspect. Who'd bother unless he was selling £1000's-worth of stuff to the UK every week? If the Belgian did not go along with this, assuming a parcel was found, the parcel would be returned.
This is why some sales sites, such as Discogs, for instance, will show lots of greyed-out entries as they will not ship to the UK, assuming you are viewing from the UK. If they will, costs have frequently gone stratospheric compared to 2 years ago.
At least a phyto is simple enough!!
-
- BCSS Member
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
It is not so easy to work out what one requires for importing if guidance aimed at amateurs is missing - the sense I get from the discussion on here is that there are ways to import which are probably ok, but before shelling out for a phyto plus the cost of plants plus postage plus possibly inspection costs I'd like to be certain that my parcel complies with with the requirements of the authorities.Davey246 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:39 pm It is NOT difficult to import anything. It is EASY, very easy in fact. It can be time-consuming and it is certainly more expensive than it has traditionally been. The only exception is where you want to buy something from abroad, from someone who cannot or will not provide what is legally required, in which case, you will need to shop elsewhere (or take the risk).
I like Ralph's idea precisely because BCSS as a society are more likely than individuals to be able to find out how individuals are meant to work this new regime.
Your second point above is worth noting as well. Countries such as the US allow importing small lots of seeds without phyto. What would the risk be to the UK if it made similar allowances?
Member of Birmingham Branch
http://birmingham.bcss.org.uk/
http://birmingham.bcss.org.uk/
Re: Importing with phyto certificate
Just to add to the confusion, once you've got the phyto, submitting it to PEACH has to be done using an old web browser, Internet Explorer. It won't work using current browsers like Chrome or Edge. Another problem is that the Dutch organisation that arranges the inspections will only accept a request from a Dutch registered business. That makes it impossible for a UK gardener to visit a Dutch garden centre and take plants to be inspected for a phyto.
It's going to make it difficult for ELK unless the organisers can arrange for on-site phytos which should be possible.
Stuart
It's going to make it difficult for ELK unless the organisers can arrange for on-site phytos which should be possible.
Stuart
- el48tel
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
To quote from an old old ditty ............
"It all makes work for the working man to do"
"It all makes work for the working man to do"
Endeavouring to grow Aylostera, Echinocereus, Echinopsis, Gymnocalycium, Matucana, Rebutia, and Sulcorebutia. Fallen out of love with Lithops and aggravated by Aeoniums.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
Currently being wooed by Haworthia, attempting hybridisation, and enticed by Mesembs.
- MatDz
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
An update from 2 days ago about changes going live from the 30th of April: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/import-plan ... april-2024
Mat
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Re: Importing with phyto certificate
So if I'm reading this right there will be no checks or phytosanitary certificate required for seeds of "our plants" coming into GB from the EU. Which just leaves CITES restrictions to worry about which (sticking to seeds rather than plants) affects a relatively small proportion of cacti and succulents.
Growing plants look like they are still going to be a problem - assuming that "plants for planting" in the high risk category includes any plant that could be planed in the ground, either outside or under cover.
Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Growing plants look like they are still going to be a problem - assuming that "plants for planting" in the high risk category includes any plant that could be planed in the ground, either outside or under cover.
Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Philip P-V
Poole, Dorset
Growing South American cacti, Echinocereus, succulent bromeliads, smaller Aloeae, hardy Crassulaceae and whatever else catches my eye.
Poole, Dorset
Growing South American cacti, Echinocereus, succulent bromeliads, smaller Aloeae, hardy Crassulaceae and whatever else catches my eye.