Agave Montana Blue Ocean

For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation and exhibition of cacti & other succulents.
Forum rules
For the discussion of topics related to the conservation, cultivation, propagation and exhibition of cacti & other succulents only.

Please respect all forum members opinions and if you can't make a civil reply, don't reply!
WayneM
Registered Guest
Posts: 89
Joined: 30 Dec 2018
Branch: None
Country: United Kingdom

Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by WayneM » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:16 pm

As we now know Montana's are very worthy and well suited to growing in our climate. I have two doing very well

So naturally when I saw a variant for sale, my interest was piqued. However, with the current trend to invent names to sell plants does anyone have any knowledge of this Blue Ocean hybrid? Paul? :wink:
Here's a picture I found from France , Worth a punt?
blueocean.jpg
blueocean.jpg (8.7 KiB) Viewed 1339 times


Thanks
Wayne
Attachments
blueocean.jpg
blueocean.jpg (8.7 KiB) Viewed 1339 times
User avatar
Paul in Essex
BCSS Member
Posts: 1652
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Branch: SOUTHEND-ON-SEA
Country: England
Role within the BCSS: Member
Location: North Thames Delta
Contact:

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by Paul in Essex » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:57 pm

Hi Wayne.
I've seen this cultivar come up in discussion before on another forum. It isn't one I had heard of until then but, from the pictures I have seen, it is clearly a cultivar of Agave gentryi not montana.

The source of a lot of these new fancy named agaves in the USA is Plant Delights nursery - they tissue culture the heck out of every single slight variation then flood the market with ridiculously named plants. And they have a different understanding of what Agave montana looks like to the rest of the agave growing world, confusing it with Agave gentryi. There is a plant they have sold for some years called Agave montana 'Baccarat', for example, which is about as perfect a form of Agave gentryi as you could wish to see. Agave 'Ocean Blue' looks to me to be very similar.

So having got that out of the way some forms of Agave gentryi - especially the wider leafed forms like this one and 'Baccarat' - are superlative plants and well worth growing.
www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Exotic garden design.
User avatar
Paul in Essex
BCSS Member
Posts: 1652
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Branch: SOUTHEND-ON-SEA
Country: England
Role within the BCSS: Member
Location: North Thames Delta
Contact:

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by Paul in Essex » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:00 pm

Just found this pic I took of 'Baccarat' growing in a garden in Oxfordshire. I reckon 'Ocean Blue' will end up very similar.
baccarat1.jpg
www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Exotic garden design.
WayneM
Registered Guest
Posts: 89
Joined: 30 Dec 2018
Branch: None
Country: United Kingdom

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by WayneM » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:38 pm

Thanks Paul, I knew you'd come through :wink:

What attracted me was the blue-ish colouring, plus it has great form too.
I like it alot, so much so I've taken a punt :grin: Well its only a pup.

Now we're talking Agaves, what's your opinions on my other favourite Agave, the Ovatifolia and its variants. .
Such as Frosty Blue, La Huasteca Giant and recently Emerald .

Would be interested in views

Best Regards
Wayne
User avatar
Tina
BCSS Member
Posts: 5998
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Branch: NORTHAMPTON & MILTON KEYNES
Country: England
Role within the BCSS: Committee member
Location: BUCKINGHAMSHIRE

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by Tina » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:06 pm

Ovatifolia
nice looking but gets very large, how much space do you have :lol: .
I keep getting tempted my Ovatifolia 'orca' a variegated form but I have been sensible soo far
Tina

varied collection of succulents and cacti but I especially like Euphorbia's and variegated agaves.

Bucks, UK
Branch co-ordinator Northampton & Mk Branch
BCSS Talk team member, contact me if you want to volunteer or suggest a speaker plz.
WayneM
Registered Guest
Posts: 89
Joined: 30 Dec 2018
Branch: None
Country: United Kingdom

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by WayneM » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:20 pm

Orca

Lets have some pictures. I'd have one and make the space if I could source one :wink:

Wayne
User avatar
Paul in Essex
BCSS Member
Posts: 1652
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Branch: SOUTHEND-ON-SEA
Country: England
Role within the BCSS: Member
Location: North Thames Delta
Contact:

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by Paul in Essex » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:39 pm

Well, since you ask..... :) .... there are a couple of factors at work here.

Agave ovatifolia was described from a single population on a single mountain top and access to the site is limited as it is private property. Seed was collected and distributed and the offspring show a decent amount of variability. Some of these have, themselves, flowered and set seed - Agave ovatifolia seems to turn around it's lifecycle fairly quickly in the right climate - and these also show variability. Nurserymen select some of these slightly different seedlings and multiply them by tissue culture so that they have large numbers of clones that are uniformly different, and then give them all fancy names so they can in fact sell the same species many times over. 'Frosty Blue', 'Lava Flow', 'Vanzie', 'Blue Dreams'. But if you sow a number of Agave ovatifolia seeds and you'll find plants like these.

Subsequently other agaves have been found at other locations 'near' to where Agave ovatifolia comes from - Huasteca being one that is around 170m further south - that bear a resemblance to Agave ovatifolia but not quite - like a half-way between Agave ovatifolia and A. parassana. These plants have entered the commercial loop before being properly investigated so what they actually are is anyone's guess. But rather than calling them Agave species Nova aff ovatifolia (for example) again they have been given nice catchy names and are being sold as different plants. 'Huasteca Giant' and 'Emerald' are amongst these plants - not confirmed as being Agave ovatifolia at all.

So while what they actually are is, in some cases, a mystery there is no denying they are nice plants.
www.oasisdesigns.co.uk

Exotic garden design.
User avatar
Tina
BCSS Member
Posts: 5998
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Branch: NORTHAMPTON & MILTON KEYNES
Country: England
Role within the BCSS: Committee member
Location: BUCKINGHAMSHIRE

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by Tina » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:13 pm

Hi
try here from Plant delights, USA
https://www.plantdelights.com/apps/phot ... iffin-gdn2
Tina

varied collection of succulents and cacti but I especially like Euphorbia's and variegated agaves.

Bucks, UK
Branch co-ordinator Northampton & Mk Branch
BCSS Talk team member, contact me if you want to volunteer or suggest a speaker plz.
User avatar
Stuart
BCSS Member
Posts: 1410
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Branch: BRIGHTON, HOVE & District
Country: England

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by Stuart » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:14 pm

That one doesn't look remotely like Ovatifolia, I've bought plants from Plant Delights in the US which were fine, nice healthy plants, though when I had some sent to the UK, they packed each one with large masses of soggy moss to keep the roots damp which cost me a fortune in shipping costs, the last thing Agaves need for shipping is soaking wet roots. As they mainly sell non-succulent garden plants I assume the packing staff didn't know what they were doing when it came to shipping succulents.
Stuart
WayneM
Registered Guest
Posts: 89
Joined: 30 Dec 2018
Branch: None
Country: United Kingdom

Re: Agave Montana Blue Ocean

Post by WayneM » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:35 am

Cheers Paul, much appreciated.

As much as its very annoying dealing with marketing gimmicks.
Ultimately it about whether it would look great in your garden and if it turns out like the one in the picture, Then happy days :wink:

As we are on thread about Agaves, iIm drawn to anything with a blue tinge. In everyone's experience what blue/bluish Agave have you enjoyed growing in our climate.
For me my little Ovatifolia in its 2nd year stands out

Image
IMG_20200208_170759_122.jpg
and Agave Weberi, now correctly identified :wink:
Image
DSC00244.jpg
I have a few Agave Parryi variants that could show those bluish traits.

Would appreciate your pictures and opinions.
Thanks

Wayne
Post Reply